Doesn't bode well for the government when citizens are forced out of the electric market because of something else they put a priority on that we, as citizens, don't need (like Obamacare).
Do the electric companies, the AI companies and the governments have enough people to provide security for every mile of power lines, every substation and generation plant? To protect the people who work to maintain all of the above and keep the juice flowing to AI and government?
I'm neither proposing nor advocating citizens damaging the infrastructure, just merely curious as to what the unintended consequences might be. In case my friend Henry Bowman asks.
Unintended Consequences, Henry Bowman, indeed... We had John Ross address our discussion club in KC about 30 years ago, as I recall, he was from St Louis... See https://billstclair.com/Unintended-Consequences.pdf
One thing that sobers me is I suspect those miscreants (USA?) that cannot win at the AI race will then begin to compete in the EMP race. Amish Intelligence may become the way of mankind again.
Sure wish I could afford one of those high-falootin' EMP-hardened off-grid inverters.....
I’ve been asking asking and somebody help me with this. For all the new jobs that will be created 10 will go away. People will move to the trades and build all these power plants, etc. etc. Some tradesmen will still be needed to manage and run them at least until such time as more and more things become robotic or the structure of these facilities change to make them more readily repairable by robots.
All I hear in this is job loss after job loss after job loss and even all those social media content creators are eventually going to suffer because AI will generate most of it complete with an artificial video creation of the influencer.
But no matter how I run it forward, regardless of whether AI becomes autonomous and takes over, Why would any of us have one iota of trust in the corporate prostitutes and families that run the planet as far as our well-being?
So in the end, when everything is efficient, artificial, and robotic who has any income left over to buy all the crap being so much more effectively produced?
I see a future, where those of us that are left are once again using hand fans on the porch because we have no electricity while all the robots and AI entities are permanently in case in 62° air conditioning comfort.
There are entire universes of problems which AI will not be able to solve, no matter how much electricity is poured into the effort, and these problems have been well known since 1931, when Kurt Gödel set them out in his Incompleteness theorems.
"The paradox first identified by Turing and Gödel has now been brought forward into the world of AI by Smale and others,” said co-author Dr Matthew Colbrook from the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics. “There are fundamental limits inherent in mathematics and, similarly, AI algorithms can’t exist for certain problems.”
The researchers say that, because of this paradox, there are cases where good neural networks can exist, yet an inherently trustworthy one cannot be built. “No matter how accurate your data is, you can never get the perfect information to build the required neural network,” said co-author Dr Vegard Antun from the University of Oslo.
The impossibility of computing the good existing neural network is also true regardless of the amount of training data. No matter how much data an algorithm can access, it will not produce the desired network. “This is similar to Turing’s argument: there are computational problems that cannot be solved regardless of computing power and runtime,” said Hansen." https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/mathematical-paradox-demonstrates-the-limits-of-ai
and
"Deep learning (DL) has demonstrated unparalleled accomplishments in fields ranging from image classification and computer vision (1–3), to voice recognition and automated diagnosis in medicine (4–6), to inverse problems and image reconstruction (7–12). However, there is now overwhelming empirical evidence that current DL techniques typically lead to unstable methods, a phenomenon that seems universal and present in all of the applications listed above (13–21) and in most of the new artificial intelligence (AI) technologies. These instabilities are often detected by what has become commonly known in the literature as “adversarial attacks.” Moreover, the instabilities can be present even in random cases and not just worst-case scenarios (22)—see Fig. 1 for an example of AI-generated hallucinations. There is a growing awareness of this problem in high-stakes applications and society as a whole (20, 23, 24), and instability seems to be the Achilles’ heel of modern AI and DL (Fig. 2, Top row). For example, this is a problem in real-world clinical practice. Facebook and New York University’s 2019 FastMRI challenge reported that networks that performed well in terms of standard image quality metrics were prone to false negatives, failing to reconstruct small, but physically relevant image abnormalities (25). Subsequently, the 2020 FastMRI challenge (26) focused on pathologies, noting, “Such hallucinatory features are not acceptable and especially problematic if they mimic normal structures that are either not present or actually abnormal. Neural network models can be unstable as demonstrated via adversarial perturbation studies (19).” For similar examples in microscopy, see refs. 27 and 28. The tolerance level for false positives/negatives varies within different applications. However, for scenarios with a high cost of misanalysis, it is imperative that false negatives/positives be avoided. AI-generated hallucinations therefore pose a serious danger in applications such as medical diagnosis." https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2107151119
Another problem is the identification of "friends and foes" (IFF). Submarines have distinctive cavitation signatures produced by their propeller blades going through water. Much work has been done to muffle this cavitation, but it still exists and can be detected. The trick is to be able to find if the cavitation noises coming over on a waterfall display are those of an enemy sub - or a friendly sub. Humans can, with experience, make this differentiation quickly and reliably, AIs may not - because of the same "AI-generated hallucination" problem seen in medical diagnosis, above.
Eventually the wax melts off of Icarus' wings, and Icarus falls back down to the earth. Such *must* be the case with AI, it just depends on the foolishness of the dreamers who follow this chimaera, how much time and energy is wasted.
Years ago, I was hired to do a whole series of articles on 'green energy'. What I came away with was that while some might work on a very small scale, none of them was going to provide enough energy for society. Even the much touted solar panels are ridiculous, one good hail storm or too much cloudy weather or living too far north means that they are useless. Finally, I asked the client if I could write an article about thorium reactors and he agreed. As far as I can see, these reactors are the only form of 'green energy' that work. China and India are building them now, while we dither around with wave generators and windmills.
What an answer, thank you very much. To understand it I'll need to look up a few bits and pieces which I've already done; I'm not entirely stupid (though my wife of many years may give a different answer......), but it's not my usual world. But appreciate it.
As I take it, AI has certain limitations that can be highly significant, good for Mankind.
What I'm left with as the greatest source of unease is the 'human nature' of our 'human' control grid, e.g. gazillionaires with lobbyists, banks, LEO at their beck and call and all that.
I suppose it goes to the fear humans - humans of non-elite status or connection - remain resources to be pillaged and discarded and this technology will give them unimagined leverage to put it into action.
And, even removing an assumption of unchecked greed and power mania, I fear the direction of efficiency which means replacing humans with the cheaper option at a rate the culture can't keep up with, or may wish not to do at all.
But thanks for answering with information I don't know about......thought provoking.
Thanks for the illuminating technical aspects of what many suspected, that it’s being way oversold as to benefits, as the vaxx was as everything is today. Discernment will save a lot of pain and suffering.
I have started to reverse some of this also. Why!?
Because if I get anymore technological time saving devices and programs, I have determined I won’t have ANY time left.
I got rid of my iPhone and went back to a flip phone. I NO LONGER HAVE AN ENTERTAIMENT CENTER, BUT A PHONE. What do I do with it… I talk to those I need to talk with when I need to talk with them.
I do not text, with the exception of codes for business verification.
While I still look with contempt at the many with their snouts stuck in their Entertainment Center and totally unaware of their surroundings, I’m not one of them. I actually carry books around to read in dead time.
I am doing the same as you… becoming ever more self-sufficient.
I have actually come back to the surface of Planet Earth and the real world of looking into other’s eyes when I talk with them.
It’s refreshing! Try it! …or continue to be a slave to this bullshytte.
Termini…
Jack Lawson
Member, Sully H. deFontaine Special Forces Association Chapter 51, Las Vegas, Nevada
Doesn't bode well for the government when citizens are forced out of the electric market because of something else they put a priority on that we, as citizens, don't need (like Obamacare).
Do the electric companies, the AI companies and the governments have enough people to provide security for every mile of power lines, every substation and generation plant? To protect the people who work to maintain all of the above and keep the juice flowing to AI and government?
I'm neither proposing nor advocating citizens damaging the infrastructure, just merely curious as to what the unintended consequences might be. In case my friend Henry Bowman asks.
Precisely.
Unintended Consequences, Henry Bowman, indeed... We had John Ross address our discussion club in KC about 30 years ago, as I recall, he was from St Louis... See https://billstclair.com/Unintended-Consequences.pdf
I maintain the only humanity-friendly AI is Amish Intelligence.
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Right again, Guido
One thing that sobers me is I suspect those miscreants (USA?) that cannot win at the AI race will then begin to compete in the EMP race. Amish Intelligence may become the way of mankind again.
Sure wish I could afford one of those high-falootin' EMP-hardened off-grid inverters.....
Onward, Christian soldiers!
There will inevitably come a time when we have nothing more to lose. A man with absolutely nothing more to lose can be a dangerous man.
I’ve been asking asking and somebody help me with this. For all the new jobs that will be created 10 will go away. People will move to the trades and build all these power plants, etc. etc. Some tradesmen will still be needed to manage and run them at least until such time as more and more things become robotic or the structure of these facilities change to make them more readily repairable by robots.
All I hear in this is job loss after job loss after job loss and even all those social media content creators are eventually going to suffer because AI will generate most of it complete with an artificial video creation of the influencer.
But no matter how I run it forward, regardless of whether AI becomes autonomous and takes over, Why would any of us have one iota of trust in the corporate prostitutes and families that run the planet as far as our well-being?
So in the end, when everything is efficient, artificial, and robotic who has any income left over to buy all the crap being so much more effectively produced?
I see a future, where those of us that are left are once again using hand fans on the porch because we have no electricity while all the robots and AI entities are permanently in case in 62° air conditioning comfort.
Somebody please obliterate this gloomy picture.
Done, see my response above.
There are entire universes of problems which AI will not be able to solve, no matter how much electricity is poured into the effort, and these problems have been well known since 1931, when Kurt Gödel set them out in his Incompleteness theorems.
"The paradox first identified by Turing and Gödel has now been brought forward into the world of AI by Smale and others,” said co-author Dr Matthew Colbrook from the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics. “There are fundamental limits inherent in mathematics and, similarly, AI algorithms can’t exist for certain problems.”
The researchers say that, because of this paradox, there are cases where good neural networks can exist, yet an inherently trustworthy one cannot be built. “No matter how accurate your data is, you can never get the perfect information to build the required neural network,” said co-author Dr Vegard Antun from the University of Oslo.
The impossibility of computing the good existing neural network is also true regardless of the amount of training data. No matter how much data an algorithm can access, it will not produce the desired network. “This is similar to Turing’s argument: there are computational problems that cannot be solved regardless of computing power and runtime,” said Hansen." https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/mathematical-paradox-demonstrates-the-limits-of-ai
and
"Deep learning (DL) has demonstrated unparalleled accomplishments in fields ranging from image classification and computer vision (1–3), to voice recognition and automated diagnosis in medicine (4–6), to inverse problems and image reconstruction (7–12). However, there is now overwhelming empirical evidence that current DL techniques typically lead to unstable methods, a phenomenon that seems universal and present in all of the applications listed above (13–21) and in most of the new artificial intelligence (AI) technologies. These instabilities are often detected by what has become commonly known in the literature as “adversarial attacks.” Moreover, the instabilities can be present even in random cases and not just worst-case scenarios (22)—see Fig. 1 for an example of AI-generated hallucinations. There is a growing awareness of this problem in high-stakes applications and society as a whole (20, 23, 24), and instability seems to be the Achilles’ heel of modern AI and DL (Fig. 2, Top row). For example, this is a problem in real-world clinical practice. Facebook and New York University’s 2019 FastMRI challenge reported that networks that performed well in terms of standard image quality metrics were prone to false negatives, failing to reconstruct small, but physically relevant image abnormalities (25). Subsequently, the 2020 FastMRI challenge (26) focused on pathologies, noting, “Such hallucinatory features are not acceptable and especially problematic if they mimic normal structures that are either not present or actually abnormal. Neural network models can be unstable as demonstrated via adversarial perturbation studies (19).” For similar examples in microscopy, see refs. 27 and 28. The tolerance level for false positives/negatives varies within different applications. However, for scenarios with a high cost of misanalysis, it is imperative that false negatives/positives be avoided. AI-generated hallucinations therefore pose a serious danger in applications such as medical diagnosis." https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2107151119
Another problem is the identification of "friends and foes" (IFF). Submarines have distinctive cavitation signatures produced by their propeller blades going through water. Much work has been done to muffle this cavitation, but it still exists and can be detected. The trick is to be able to find if the cavitation noises coming over on a waterfall display are those of an enemy sub - or a friendly sub. Humans can, with experience, make this differentiation quickly and reliably, AIs may not - because of the same "AI-generated hallucination" problem seen in medical diagnosis, above.
Eventually the wax melts off of Icarus' wings, and Icarus falls back down to the earth. Such *must* be the case with AI, it just depends on the foolishness of the dreamers who follow this chimaera, how much time and energy is wasted.
Like green energy, it will take decades of stupidity to uncover the truth.
Years ago, I was hired to do a whole series of articles on 'green energy'. What I came away with was that while some might work on a very small scale, none of them was going to provide enough energy for society. Even the much touted solar panels are ridiculous, one good hail storm or too much cloudy weather or living too far north means that they are useless. Finally, I asked the client if I could write an article about thorium reactors and he agreed. As far as I can see, these reactors are the only form of 'green energy' that work. China and India are building them now, while we dither around with wave generators and windmills.
Exactly.
What an answer, thank you very much. To understand it I'll need to look up a few bits and pieces which I've already done; I'm not entirely stupid (though my wife of many years may give a different answer......), but it's not my usual world. But appreciate it.
As I take it, AI has certain limitations that can be highly significant, good for Mankind.
What I'm left with as the greatest source of unease is the 'human nature' of our 'human' control grid, e.g. gazillionaires with lobbyists, banks, LEO at their beck and call and all that.
I suppose it goes to the fear humans - humans of non-elite status or connection - remain resources to be pillaged and discarded and this technology will give them unimagined leverage to put it into action.
And, even removing an assumption of unchecked greed and power mania, I fear the direction of efficiency which means replacing humans with the cheaper option at a rate the culture can't keep up with, or may wish not to do at all.
But thanks for answering with information I don't know about......thought provoking.
Eventually they'll need a plumber - or some other skilled trade... Elites are blissful in their ignorance of practical skills, until ...
Thanks for the illuminating technical aspects of what many suspected, that it’s being way oversold as to benefits, as the vaxx was as everything is today. Discernment will save a lot of pain and suffering.
100% CORRRECT T. L. !!!
I have started to reverse some of this also. Why!?
Because if I get anymore technological time saving devices and programs, I have determined I won’t have ANY time left.
I got rid of my iPhone and went back to a flip phone. I NO LONGER HAVE AN ENTERTAIMENT CENTER, BUT A PHONE. What do I do with it… I talk to those I need to talk with when I need to talk with them.
I do not text, with the exception of codes for business verification.
While I still look with contempt at the many with their snouts stuck in their Entertainment Center and totally unaware of their surroundings, I’m not one of them. I actually carry books around to read in dead time.
I am doing the same as you… becoming ever more self-sufficient.
I have actually come back to the surface of Planet Earth and the real world of looking into other’s eyes when I talk with them.
It’s refreshing! Try it! …or continue to be a slave to this bullshytte.
Termini…
Jack Lawson
Member, Sully H. deFontaine Special Forces Association Chapter 51, Las Vegas, Nevada
Author of the “Civil Defense Manual,” “The Slaver’s Wheel,” “A Failure of Civility,” “And We Hide From The Devil” and “In Defense.” Go to www.JackLawsonBooks.com and JackLawsonBooks.Substack.com
“Despite all of our accomplishments, we owe our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.” – Paul Harvey
From Jack Lawson… an American in 1RLI Support Commando and attached to Rhodesian “C Squadron” SAS Africa 1976-79
Hello,
The comments are outstanding and I am lucky to see them.
The outrage will be very great when we are on a machine to generate
power to those that seek to destroy their fellowman financially and also
wish us dead. The behavior of pols that sell their souls for evasion from
blackmailers or to satisfy extraordinary cravings for wealth and power?
Those do not deserve anything from the average family. Those soul-less
freak people could just vaporize...that would be a good thing.
Invest heavily in sturdy rope, because a lot of people are going to need hanging and ammo supplies will probably be finite.