Howdy T.L! Good analysis. I had a discussion with a Marine friend a few days back. We both agree the specter of Civil War is looming, and let's pray it doesn't! But we really wanted to spend time to determine if we've arrived in a new generation of warfare. I think we have. Wars of words, cancel culture, vitriol, and proxy assassinations may be part of this new 5th generation Warfare (5GW). While many facets of 5GW have been around, with many being common threads in all wars, the way battles now being fought is different. I think an example of a weapon of 5GW is social media. Anyone can say as they choose behind the veil of the keyboard without accountability. The algorithms applied to posts are processed to enhance the power of words, and to focus attacks. If one has a large enough following, that person could order a killing, and some kid in social media land would act to carry out the killing. It's a new type of war. As my thoughts on what 5GW actually develop, thoughts from you and your loyal readers would be most welcome. Happy Thanksgiving to all y'all! Mac out!
Here's a conundrum... what if an order that falls outside of what a court would determine to be legal is actually the correct action for the sake of saving lives, defeating an enemy, or even saving the Republic? I ask because I have reached the conclusion that our current judicial system (as it is) as well as our legislative system is wholly inadequate to address serious dangers to the nation in a timely manner nor nimble enough to take the required action to eliminate the danger in the face of what today is considered to be illegal/unconstitutional. Case in point, 100,000 Somali immigrants now wrecking Minneapolis or the islamic takeover of Dearborn. Islam is incompatible with the tenants of a constitutional republic. For the sake of the Republic they all must go... and quickly. But it would be illegal as such action would be stalled by accusations of it being unconstitutional and a violation of "rights". (They are bent on conquering, not assimilating. Why should they have "rights"?)
Sometimes there just needs to be a Charles Martel that rides to the rescue.
"The way in which the United States is being openly maneuvered into the best position for it to be attacked is astounding." My take on this that the current crop of elites would be happy with a huge war involving the US regardless of the outcome. Win, they get to keep stealing (aka the "vampire's ball") from the rest of the world. Lose and all the records of their theft from the treasury are lost and no one will be in a position to prosecute them or recover the loot.
During my time in the military (USMC/infantry) the discussion of "unlawful orders" was divided into two parts, on base, and deployed. The on base stuff was common sense, and was included with a briefing on the UCMJ. Most was the military version of common criminal law, along with STFU and do as you are told. There was also discipline aboard a naval vessel underway. One of the fun things there was a leftover from the old naval discipline book "Rocks and Shoals". This allowed the Captain of a ship to give a sailor or embarked Marine three days bread and water in brig with just an entry in the ships log. This was actually good for the repentant troop, because it did not go in the person's service record.
The three most used articles were Article 86, Absence Without Leave" (AWOL), failure to report to their designated duty location at the required time. Article 92, failure to obey lawful orders or regulations. And Article 134, conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline or bringing discredit upon the armed forces. This would be where your hairy upper lip could have got you NJP. I got the same "order" as a young Private (along with the rest of the Battalion), except the Battalion CO said "If it looks like dirt on your lip after a week, you will shave it". Luckily, I could grow a good one.
Essentially, this is all bullshit, and has nothing to do with "unlawful orders" we should be discussing. Those orders don't even apply to being deployed, whether you are active duty, activated reserve, or National Guard. I can't imagine trying to justify the words "I'm not getting on the...(truck, helo, ship, etc.).
What we are really talking about is ROE (Rules of Engagement)
For the uninitiated, this basically means who I can shoot, what I can shoot them with, and under what circumstances. Think of it as an advanced police use of force pyramid that (for Grunts) goes from harsh words to air strikes and artillery. The USAF and Navy have nukes in their ROE.
I'm willing to bet our current military, particularly those in ground combat arms units, are every bit as well briefed as we were during the Vietnam era.
Probably better!
I have no idea what the Navy, USAF, or USGG does, but there must be some training. My guess it's less intensive, except for units like the weapons crews, SEALs, and USCG boarding and interdiction parties.
Most people don't know it, but the Corps had an incident similar to My Lai. Is was called Son Thang, and it happened in 1970. Nine killed.
The reason most have never heard of it was because there was no coverup- it was reported and punished.
In Iraq an unlawful "massacre" was suspected in Haditha, with 24 killed. Ultimately, no one was convicted. From what I've read, this was less about following orders and more about shooting when others shoot. This is common with police as well, and is well studied.
“Stercus Accidit” in English, that's "excrement occurs".
Boston Massacre anyone?
NONE of this is applicable to what is happening in the USA with ICE, National Guard, or Marines.
This nonsense with the video is nothing but grandstanding. As usual it is directed at the uneducated and the Kool-Aid drinkers.
I think they seek to cause "conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline", embolden the so called "protestors", encourage more violence, and incite the police, NG, or military to return fire.
Howdy T.L! Good analysis. I had a discussion with a Marine friend a few days back. We both agree the specter of Civil War is looming, and let's pray it doesn't! But we really wanted to spend time to determine if we've arrived in a new generation of warfare. I think we have. Wars of words, cancel culture, vitriol, and proxy assassinations may be part of this new 5th generation Warfare (5GW). While many facets of 5GW have been around, with many being common threads in all wars, the way battles now being fought is different. I think an example of a weapon of 5GW is social media. Anyone can say as they choose behind the veil of the keyboard without accountability. The algorithms applied to posts are processed to enhance the power of words, and to focus attacks. If one has a large enough following, that person could order a killing, and some kid in social media land would act to carry out the killing. It's a new type of war. As my thoughts on what 5GW actually develop, thoughts from you and your loyal readers would be most welcome. Happy Thanksgiving to all y'all! Mac out!
Here's a conundrum... what if an order that falls outside of what a court would determine to be legal is actually the correct action for the sake of saving lives, defeating an enemy, or even saving the Republic? I ask because I have reached the conclusion that our current judicial system (as it is) as well as our legislative system is wholly inadequate to address serious dangers to the nation in a timely manner nor nimble enough to take the required action to eliminate the danger in the face of what today is considered to be illegal/unconstitutional. Case in point, 100,000 Somali immigrants now wrecking Minneapolis or the islamic takeover of Dearborn. Islam is incompatible with the tenants of a constitutional republic. For the sake of the Republic they all must go... and quickly. But it would be illegal as such action would be stalled by accusations of it being unconstitutional and a violation of "rights". (They are bent on conquering, not assimilating. Why should they have "rights"?)
Sometimes there just needs to be a Charles Martel that rides to the rescue.
"The way in which the United States is being openly maneuvered into the best position for it to be attacked is astounding." My take on this that the current crop of elites would be happy with a huge war involving the US regardless of the outcome. Win, they get to keep stealing (aka the "vampire's ball") from the rest of the world. Lose and all the records of their theft from the treasury are lost and no one will be in a position to prosecute them or recover the loot.
During my time in the military (USMC/infantry) the discussion of "unlawful orders" was divided into two parts, on base, and deployed. The on base stuff was common sense, and was included with a briefing on the UCMJ. Most was the military version of common criminal law, along with STFU and do as you are told. There was also discipline aboard a naval vessel underway. One of the fun things there was a leftover from the old naval discipline book "Rocks and Shoals". This allowed the Captain of a ship to give a sailor or embarked Marine three days bread and water in brig with just an entry in the ships log. This was actually good for the repentant troop, because it did not go in the person's service record.
The three most used articles were Article 86, Absence Without Leave" (AWOL), failure to report to their designated duty location at the required time. Article 92, failure to obey lawful orders or regulations. And Article 134, conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline or bringing discredit upon the armed forces. This would be where your hairy upper lip could have got you NJP. I got the same "order" as a young Private (along with the rest of the Battalion), except the Battalion CO said "If it looks like dirt on your lip after a week, you will shave it". Luckily, I could grow a good one.
Essentially, this is all bullshit, and has nothing to do with "unlawful orders" we should be discussing. Those orders don't even apply to being deployed, whether you are active duty, activated reserve, or National Guard. I can't imagine trying to justify the words "I'm not getting on the...(truck, helo, ship, etc.).
What we are really talking about is ROE (Rules of Engagement)
For the uninitiated, this basically means who I can shoot, what I can shoot them with, and under what circumstances. Think of it as an advanced police use of force pyramid that (for Grunts) goes from harsh words to air strikes and artillery. The USAF and Navy have nukes in their ROE.
I'm willing to bet our current military, particularly those in ground combat arms units, are every bit as well briefed as we were during the Vietnam era.
Probably better!
I have no idea what the Navy, USAF, or USGG does, but there must be some training. My guess it's less intensive, except for units like the weapons crews, SEALs, and USCG boarding and interdiction parties.
Most people don't know it, but the Corps had an incident similar to My Lai. Is was called Son Thang, and it happened in 1970. Nine killed.
The reason most have never heard of it was because there was no coverup- it was reported and punished.
In Iraq an unlawful "massacre" was suspected in Haditha, with 24 killed. Ultimately, no one was convicted. From what I've read, this was less about following orders and more about shooting when others shoot. This is common with police as well, and is well studied.
“Stercus Accidit” in English, that's "excrement occurs".
Boston Massacre anyone?
NONE of this is applicable to what is happening in the USA with ICE, National Guard, or Marines.
This nonsense with the video is nothing but grandstanding. As usual it is directed at the uneducated and the Kool-Aid drinkers.
I think they seek to cause "conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline", embolden the so called "protestors", encourage more violence, and incite the police, NG, or military to return fire.
They deserve a General Court.